2019 Champs Pre-Elite Qualifying points

[Lisa Adams]

If a dog has 90 points in Elite Regulars, but over 40 points in Elite Chances and Elite Jumpers, can that dog still quality for Pre-Elite Champs in 2019?  My dog doesn't have these points - this is just an example for What If?

[Ed and Tres]

If a dog has 90 points in Elite Regulars, but over 40 points in Elite Chances and Elite Jumpers, can that dog still quality for Pre-Elite Champs in 2019?

According to 2018 qualifications, which are not expected to change for Elite level, your dog could be Pre-Elite but you still need 10 Open or Novice regular Qs in the qualifying period. If your 9 Elite Qs are in that period you need one more Open/nov Q.

However if you get just one more Elite regular Q for a total of 100 then you MUST enter Elite.

[KarissaKS]

If a team has proven that they are able to get 40+ points in Elite Jumpers and Chances, plus 90 points in Elite Regular during the qualifying period -- and then makes the choice to move their dog back into Open for the sole purpose of being able to compete in the Pre-Elite division -- Maybe it's just me, but that seems like poor sportsmanship from a team who has proven their capability at the Elite level.

Now if it was a team who knew they were going to struggle to meet the Jumpers and Chances qualifications I could maybe see keeping your dog in Open Regular to not disqualify them from Pre-Elite -- but a dog who succeeds in Elite Jumpers, Chances, and Regular belongs in the Elite division at Champs.

I remember the first year that Pre-Elite came back and there were dogs with NATCHes entered in that division.... I guess I will never understand someone wanting to win something that badly.

[Richard Wolfe]

Okay. Ten points difference, but there is some interpretation going on.  Here is the quote.

Pre-Elite Qualifications
1. At least 100 points must have been earned in the current qualifying year from the Regular
Agility class in Intro, Novice, Open or Elite, with the exception that a dog entered in Pre-
Elite cannot have earned more than 100 points in Elite Regular in their lifetime up to
September 15, 2018. If a dog earns more than 100 points in Elite Regular, then their entry
will be switched to the Elite level.

So, with a 5 point Q that can be earned in Regular, or a bonus run that puts the dog OVER, not at 100 Regular Elite points, the dog must be entered in Elite at Champs.

Dogs may be entered in levels LOWER than they are eligible for currently, so if they do not have MORE than 100 Elite Regular they have the option at 100 Elite points to enter either Division.  That's what it says.  So if they are eligible for the option and take pre-Elite, there should be no shaming because it is allowed.

Just to clarify.

[PaulaGoss]

I don’t believe that’s true about dogs having NATCHES running the year they brought back pre-elite.  I remember Sharon being pretty clear that would not be allowed.
I guess I can’t 100% speak for all the pre-elite heights but I was in the 16 inch pre-elite class that year and I don’t recall anyone with a NATCH in it.  They didn’t finish 1-2-3, anyway.

Paula Goss

[Amy McGovern]

As someone who just came back from pre-elite, it is clear they are much more baby dogs than the elite division!  One of the confusing things that could make people think about NATCH dogs is that DD and pre-elite ran mixed together (by height) in the same ring.  So you could see an amazing dog that could easily nail the distance challenge and then followed by a baby dog and then another older one.  People might be confused and think they are the same division but they were simply the same height.

[Richard Wolfe]

By definition, the pre-Elite dogs could not have a NATCH this year, since at more than 100 Elite Regular points moved them to the Elite Division.  It takes 230 Elite Regular points for a NATCH.

[Vicki Storrs]

Pretty sure Katrina and Paula we’re talking just about 2015, when pre-elite “reappeared.”  Yes, the written qualifications, strictly speaking as I recall, would have allowed a NATCH dog to run in pre elite. But Sharon let it be known that wasn’t the intent of offering pre elite, so to speak (and I would guess that ignoring that suggestion might have started a dialogue with the NADAC offices).  The written qualifications were “cleaned up” in succeeding years so there haven’t been any misunderstandings.
Vicki

[bhodges865]

My question would be...IF you already have 90 points in Elite regular and we still have almost a whole year of qualifying, then to me, that would be sandbagging if you drop down just to stay in pre-elite.  Now maybe the original post was meaning 90 elite regular by the end of qualifying, then yes, they could run pre-elite. 

And maybe what people need to know about the distance challenge in Elite champs is that it's more of the "Open" level of chances as far as distance.  If you have never been and hear about the distance challenge in elite, you would think elite chances distance which champs really isn't.

[Kim_S]

sandbagging assumption. There are other reasons to keep a well trained baby dog in open.   One that comes to mind is the stress of a baby dog’s first big event.   Kim

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

I don’t believe that’s true about dogs having NATCHES running the year they brought back pre-elite.  I remember Sharon being pretty clear that would not be allowed.
I guess I can’t 100% speak for all the pre-elite heights but I was in the 16 inch pre-elite class that year and I don’t recall anyone with a NATCH in it.  They didn’t finish 1-2-3, anyway.

Paula Goss

Paula, they did.  There were several dogs with NATCH's (or very close to them) that were in pre-elite that year.  That is what prompted the change.

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

If a team has proven that they are able to get 40+ points in Elite Jumpers and Chances, plus 90 points in Elite Regular during the qualifying period -- and then makes the choice to move their dog back into Open for the sole purpose of being able to compete in the Pre-Elite division -- Maybe it's just me, but that seems like poor sportsmanship from a team who has proven their capability at the Elite level.

Now if it was a team who knew they were going to struggle to meet the Jumpers and Chances qualifications I could maybe see keeping your dog in Open Regular to not disqualify them from Pre-Elite -- but a dog who succeeds in Elite Jumpers, Chances, and Regular belongs in the Elite division at Champs.

I remember the first year that Pre-Elite came back and there were dogs with NATCHes entered in that division.... I guess I will never understand someone wanting to win something that badly.

I totally agree Karissa.  I have a new dog and she will likely compete in Pre-elite next year.  We are still finishing up our Novice superiors and I am struggling because she is so different than my other dogs.  However, I won't hold her back from elite just to stay in pre-elite.  She is a good jumpers dog (in novice anyway) and has some great distance, but in regular we struggle because of the turns and discriminations.

[dogrsqr]

sandbagging assumption. There are other reasons to keep a well trained baby dog in open.   One that comes to mind is the stress of a baby dog’s first big event.   Kim

I agree Kim.  I won’t hold my baby dog back but if she ends up getting to far into elite I would just forgo Champs until I felt she was ready mentally.