Author Topic: Securing tunnels  (Read 2804 times)

cheerily999

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Securing tunnels
« on: October 05, 2018, 01:12:01 PM »
Hi - I'm not finding this information the rules... Does NADAC allow tunnels to be secured only at the ends, not in the middle? If not, does NADAC have a particular position on the use of lots of tunnel bags, plus other allowed holders as needed, in order to maintain a gentle tunnel curve?

Thanks,

Cheryl Henning
Salem, OR
Cheryl Henning

Marj Vincent

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 03:00:19 PM »
Hi Cheryl,
This was just discussed on the Champs board.

The placement of the tunnel bags on the tunnels were allowed (in the middle)at Champs because all bags had water in them...not sand or other hard unforgiving material.  Water bags will give when the dog hits them, just like a tunnel might give a little when the dogs bank on them.  As far as I know, if water bags are not used at a trial, all tunnel bags must only be placed at the ends of the tunnels. Two sets on each end is acceptable. 

I am not sure what NADAC's position is when placing the Snuggler type straps in the middle. I don't see those used very often nowadays.
Marj Vincent
Scotty & Java
Ontario, OR

"The most beautiful things in life are not things. They're people, and places, and memories and pictures.They're feelings, moments, smiles and laughter."

cheerily999

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 05:52:39 PM »
Thanks, Marj. I'm definitely disappointed, stunned even. I hadn't given the extent/degree of tunnel bagging too much thought until the last month or so. And watching the Agility World Championship videos over the last couple of days has opened my eyes to the importance of well-secured tunnels. They are very fast dogs -- undeniably "NADAC fast" -- and their tunnels are secured nearly the entire length. The logic behind tunnels that barely move is very compelling from a safety POV.

You can see the tunnel bagging at AWC in some Facebook videos from Sarah with Bad Dog Agility whose videos are public:



I truly hope NADAC will revisit its position on tunnel bagging. I'm not suggesting that it ought to mirror AWC, but more tunnel bagging, not just at the ends, ought to be the norm.

Thanks,

Cheryl
Cheryl Henning

Chris Nelson

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 06:31:46 PM »
Cheryl,

I think you might have misunderstood Marj's post.

We ARE bagging our tunnels in that style now.   Maybe not quite to that degree, but the bags are spaced throughout the length of the tunnel.

We use water but sand is allowed.   So that would be the only correction to Marj's post.

cheerily999

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2018, 06:41:55 PM »
Thanks, Chris. It still reads like all tunnel bags must be placed at the ends (double-bagged) and using them in the middle at Champs was a special thing because they had water instead of sand.

From what you've said, it sounds like bagging with sand along the tunnel length is allowed.

Cheryl
Cheryl Henning

kbriefel

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 12:25:23 PM »

We ARE bagging our tunnels in that style now.   Maybe not quite to that degree, but the bags are spaced throughout the length of the tunnel.

We use water but sand is allowed.   So that would be the only correction to Marj's post.


Since when?  Can you be more specific?

Ken

bhodges865

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 09:40:32 AM »
I know judges at trials I have been to bag based on course flow and if dogs will be turning hard and therefore moving the tunnels.  And putting 4-6 bags on a tunnel sounds great (to some), but if you are hosting a trial, tunnel bags are not cheap and a tunneler class would be super expensive to bag everything that much.
Team TX Heeler
Knoxville, TN

Bostondirtdogs07

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 09:41:47 AM »
If there are new standards for bagging tunnels I would like to see them as well.  Our Club has a trial coming up in the beginning of November and I had not heard this.  This would be helpful for us to know.  I've actually "retired" my dogs from Tunnelers until such a time when tunnels are bagged more than just at the ends.  We've always loved that class but with the recent studies it just doesn't seem safe at all with the previous style of bagging.   :-\

Bostondirtdogs07

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 09:45:45 AM »
....and as far as the cost to Club's for additional tunnels, if they can't afford to do this for the safety of our dogs then they shouldn't be offering Tunnelers.  Just my opinion.

Lindsey Cooper

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2018, 09:53:13 AM »
We started adding additional bags to tunnels at my July trial per the judge. My bags are filled with sand and we had them at the ends and just before the bend in the tunnel.

You will probably see this trickle down at local trials over the next year. Of course it all depends on how many tunnel bags the club has as well as what they are filled with. As someone mentioned, having that many bags for a tunnelers course would be really hard for a club to provide. I have 12-13 sets of tunnel bags, so on most courses we can use multiple bags, but if we have 9-10 tunnels on a course, we won't be able to do that.

Lindsey
Mountain Dog Sports, LLC

MoabDiane

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2018, 11:14:32 AM »
My two cents' worth:
I *loved* the way the tunnels were bagged at Champs! 
And the fact that they were water-filled does indeed provide some "give" without having to reset the tunnel after every fast dog.

As far as clubs needing more bags - yeah, that's what we pay for with out entry fees:  updated, safe, approved equipment.
And for tunnelers - very often there are at least two or three (or more!) straight tunnels which I don't think would need the full complement of bags along their length.

This is a Very Positive Step forward for NADAC!!  Y'all rock!
diane

Jeannie Biggers

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2018, 01:16:01 PM »
I am quite fond of how we can now bag tunnels.  I am not sure I am totally on board with hard sand in bags in the middle but JMO.  I only use water at trials I host.  I have a few pair that are filled with corn and will use those on the ends if we need them or straight tunnels.

As a trial host representing NADAC, I feel it is my responsibility to have "trial ready" equipment as well as enough equipment to adequately cover whatever classes I intend to offer.  If I only owned 10 jumps but wanted to offer jumpers... I better be buying some jumps.  I have always had enough bags to double bag both ends of a tunnelers course with 9 tunnels.  I feel that is the minimum a club should have to adequately host tunnelers. 

I do feel that sometimes an end still needs double bagged but for the most part you can spread what we once double bagged out to equal spacing around the tunnel.  If a club had the mindset of having enough tunnel bags to double bag 9 tunnels (which was truly normal) then they really shouldnt have much extra if any cost in tunnel bags now.

If a club was skimping on their tunnel bags... yes they really should now put some money in tunnel bags as they never had enough to begin with or... not offer tunnelers.

JMHO :)
Jeannie Biggers
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dogrsqr

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2018, 02:16:46 PM »
I guess as usual I will be of the dissenting opinion.  I’d much rather my dog hit a tunnel that will move than a sandbag that won’t.  I find the extent that the tunnels are bagged at those world events to be ridiculous.  I do have a fast dog but thankfully she doesn’t pound thru tunnels.  If I saw a tunnelers corse bagged like those in the world events I would likely pull my dog.  For clubs that use sand and move their equipment to sites it would be extremely difficult to transport that much weight.


John H. Gooldy

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2018, 03:12:24 PM »
Cheryl,

I think you might have misunderstood Marj's post.

We ARE bagging our tunnels in that style now.   Maybe not quite to that degree, but the bags are spaced throughout the length of the tunnel.

We use water but sand is allowed.   So that would be the only correction to Marj's post.
k

Could pea gravel be used also. Starting to get some new bags and they suggest pea gravel or water but since we do our trial on turf I prefer not to use water. Pea gravel will give more than sand I would think. Thanks in advance for your help.
John and Ida Gooldy
4 Paws Embroidery

BeckyAH

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Re: Securing tunnels
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2018, 03:40:44 PM »
I guess as usual I will be of the dissenting opinion.  I’d much rather my dog hit a tunnel that will move than a sandbag that won’t.  I find the extent that the tunnels are bagged at those world events to be ridiculous.  I do have a fast dog but thankfully she doesn’t pound thru tunnels.  If I saw a tunnelers corse bagged like those in the world events I would likely pull my dog.  For clubs that use sand and move their equipment to sites it would be extremely difficult to transport that much weight.

Same.  Physics says that *something* is going to give and I would absolutely rather what gives be the tunnel than my dog.  I also know that the mal who died and started this died fully inside the tunnel, no necroscopy was done, and that the 'broke his neck in the tunnel' comes from an immediate reaction from a bystander and that the mal community tends to assume the dog had a heart defect.

That makes 'this happened' questionable to start with, and it certainly makes 'immovable tunnels are safer' much more so.  I don't want my dogs rolling but if they're going to hit something I'd much rather that something be yielding than a solid wall.