Author Topic: Leash Pole  (Read 2312 times)

Chris Nelson

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2019, 06:01:28 AM »
Hi Chris!  I'm a bit of a literalist and rule follower and am having trouble reconciling your messaging on the leash topic.  :-)  One one hand, you are saying leash holders are great and you like using them.  Then you say that having the leash runner hand the handler the leash is the default, unless the handler instructs the leash runner to leave it on the ground.

Is the 'official' position that leash runners should hand the handler the leash at the end of the run, unless the handler instructs the leash runner to drop it off at the end.  The club could provide some sort of 'holder' that the leash is to be placed or on the ground, if not.

Thanks!

Jan


There is no rule in regards to this, so that's why it's all just preferences and club choices :)

When I say 'default' I just mean that's what the majority of clubs have leash runners do, as it makes the trial go the quickest.   But it's not against any rules to do it differently.

So my personal preference changes on the area I'm in and what works best for the people in that area :)

knittingdog

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2019, 06:38:58 AM »


We used to trial at places that used the leash poles.  They quit using it because it was always getting pulled over and it was hard to untangle your leash from it.  Some leash runners would literally double the leash over it to make it stay on the pole.  All of them have gone to buckets and I think the buckets work much better.

Just an aside - I actually got a harness from a leash runner once who had buckled up all the buckles on her way to taking the leash to me.  I had to go figure out what to unbuckle to put it on the dog.  That certainly took time - and it was a bit annoying!  Lol!

Robin

Chris Nelson

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2019, 06:44:34 AM »


We used to trial at places that used the leash poles.  They quit using it because it was always getting pulled over and it was hard to untangle your leash from it.  Some leash runners would literally double the leash over it to make it stay on the pole.  All of them have gone to buckets and I think the buckets work much better.

Just an aside - I actually got a harness from a leash runner once who had buckled up all the buckles on her way to taking the leash to me.  I had to go figure out what to unbuckle to put it on the dog.  That certainly took time - and it was a bit annoying!  Lol!

Robin

I think that would fall under the better training for the leash runners category, haha

KarissaKS

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2019, 07:44:17 AM »
Leash running falls under the category of "things you really don't think you need to train people to do," but there are always exceptions. At a recent AKC trial I arrived at the leash chair to find the entire length of my 6' leather leash was wound tightly around Kaiser's harness.  :o  I cannot fathom what would inspire a person to do that.

I believe many clubs are under the impression that it is the official NADAC stance that the default leashing ritual is to hand the leash to exhibitors. It has been years since I've seen anything else. As someone who requests that the leash be dropped at the end, I dislike that this adds time. I have to wait for the leash runner to give the leash to the last person and then try to get their attention as they start to wander back towards me. Then there is also the issue of those who don't seem to know what it means to "drop the leash" and hold it until my dog has finished the lash obstacle and then drop it in front of them. I feel that having a leash holder/bucket/chair is a lot more self-explanatory.
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MoabDiane

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2019, 01:04:04 PM »
My two cents worth: I donít care whether my leash is handed to me, or put in a bucket. I prefer that Over any kind of chandelier/pole! I use a harness on one dog, with the slip lead attached to it. I generally try to contact the leash runner before I go in, saying that Iíd like the leash part handed to me; forget thereís a harness attached.   It would almost be easier to pick it up. Guess thatís my choice!

My other dog jumps on my arms at the end of the road. I have pretty long arms, and can usually grab the leash from someone before they try to put it on my dog. That sure a big no-no!! 
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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2019, 01:45:28 PM »
Leash running falls under the category of "things you really don't think you need to train people to do," but there are always exceptions. At a recent AKC trial I arrived at the leash chair to find the entire length of my 6' leather leash was wound tightly around Kaiser's harness.  :o  I cannot fathom what would inspire a person to do that.

I believe many clubs are under the impression that it is the official NADAC stance that the default leashing ritual is to hand the leash to exhibitors. It has been years since I've seen anything else. As someone who requests that the leash be dropped at the end, I dislike that this adds time. I have to wait for the leash runner to give the leash to the last person and then try to get their attention as they start to wander back towards me. Then there is also the issue of those who don't seem to know what it means to "drop the leash" and hold it until my dog has finished the lash obstacle and then drop it in front of them. I feel that having a leash holder/bucket/chair is a lot more self-explanatory.

For me, it is actually faster to have the leash runner bring me the leash with Calypso and Toto.  Calypso is always very far ahead of me at the finish.  I call her back to me and put her in a sit as the leash runner is coming out to me to give me the leash, I then call her to me and it goes on immediately.  If I had to call her back to me and then go get my own leash, it would take more time.  With Toto, he also comes back to me and I pick him up and then can slip the leash over his head as I am walking towards the exit. 
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Shirlene Clark

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2019, 01:49:39 PM »
We love our leash pole in Australia as it has meant the leash walker is always at the ring entrance to take instruction from the team coming in.

So we default to the leash pole but handlers can request;

- a leash buddy (at which our leash walker simple stays at the ring entrance or,

- they can ask for the leash to be placed on the ground near the leash pole (we say near the leash pole as it makwes it easier for the handler to find it

- they can ask for it to be handed to them (this one means the leash walker usually misses instruction from the next team but it isn't a perfect world and we just do the best we can)


I also now include at least in my show instructions pre-trial links to short videos explaining how to do NADAC jobs like leash walking - so we put a bit of effort into education to avoid potential "issues"
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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2019, 01:51:25 PM »
We love our leash pole in Australia as it has meant the leash walker is always at the ring entrance to take instruction from the team coming in.

So we default to the leash pole but handlers can request;

- a leash buddy (at which our leash walker simple stays at the ring entrance or,

- they can ask for the leash to be placed on the ground near the leash pole (we say near the leash pole as it makwes it easier for the handler to find it

- they can ask for it to be handed to them (this one means the leash walker usually misses instruction from the next team but it isn't a perfect world and we just do the best we can)


I also now include at least in my show instructions pre-trial links to short videos explaining how to do NADAC jobs like leash walking - so we put a bit of effort into education to avoid potential "issues"

so then I have a question for you because I am curious.  If a dog needs its leash in the middle of the ring (say it pees on course) how does the leash get to the dog quickly since the leash runner is not at the end of the run.
Audri, Lily, Cee Cee and Toto, Calypso

Shirlene Clark

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2019, 01:59:59 PM »
If the dog pees on course or need to be leashed mid run our leash walker just goes and gets the leash and takes it to them.  Usually the handler is gathering their dog and ring clean up is happening if required and we don't really see it as a big deal.  Sometimes the leash walker hasn't gotten to the pole in the first instance and so simply stops walking to the pole and starts walking to the handler. Many times a handler who has to leash a dog mid run often starts walking to the leash pole/walker themselves.


It just really isn't seen as any big deal as it doesn't happen as a "frequent occurrence".  These sort of things are infrequent exceptions to what happens during a run. I prefer we manage the efficiency of the majority as that is where time is saved and in doing so we wear the inefficiency of the minority. :)
Shirlene Clark
Australia

Kyle

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2019, 08:39:46 AM »
Right off the bat, I will say that I am not a fan of the upright leash holders, buckets or chairs for the leash to be placed on. I am a fan of having the leash handed to the handler with the loop open for the dog's head. Here's my reasons why I feel this way...

Matt with Sandee/Stewie alluded to safety issues with the "leash pole". He didn't get into what those issues might be, but I know about one big one. Dogs who see their prized toy/reward (leash) just hanging there at the end of their exciting run *do* "target" it, grab the leash and start running around with it - dragging the leash pole after them in a dangerous fashion. *Yes*, this has happened, on numerous occasions, and it's awful. Should the dog be "allowed" to do this? Nope. But some folks have a hard time training their dog not to do this. Should the handler request the leash be placed on the ground, in a bucket, on a chair or handed to them? Yes. But sometimes we're just human....

Same issue comes up with putting the leash on a chair. How many times have we seen chairs go toppling over when a dog (medium/large) reaches for the leash? I've even seen dogs jump up onto the chair, have it spill over backward and the dog is smacked by the chair. Same as above, is this a training issue? Yes. Some people have problems training it. Should the handler request the leash on the ground, in a bucket or handed to them? Yes, but once again, we're just human.

I understand when some people have said they are concerned about the dog disconnecting at the end of the run. I think it's the handler that will be disconnecting after the run when having to figure out how to; change focus from running the dog to finding where there leash has been put, remove their leash safely/quickly from the leash pole/bucket/chair, untangle their leash, find the loop and then get the dog's head into it. I know I disconnect when I have to do this. My dog is hopping around waiting waiting waiting for me to look at them and praise. (Our leash is not a toy/reward of any kind.) When we're handed our leash correctly, it is so fast, my attention is drawn away for only a second, and we're leashed and happily trotting away being praised. I don't feel like we disconnect at all.

And, of course, there's the time issue. Maybe at some trials time isn't an issue but sometimes time is a big issue to the exhibitors. Let's say it takes 15 seconds from the dog getting the last obstacle to having the leash placed around the neck. This is an absolute possibility, try it.  :) In fact, as someone who tries Bonuses, it could easily take that for us to run across the ring from wherever our box was, to pick up and untangle our leash and get it over the dog's head.  Let's take 250 runs x 15 seconds....and if my math is correct (not always!) that's an extra hour to the day.   

It's not logical to expect a dog not to "target" their leash if that's the end of the run reward. After a time or two of seeing where their beloved toy/reward is at the end of a run - on a leash pole, in a bucket, on a chair - any smart dog *will* at least try to get to it - it being a *target* in the true sense of the word....for the dog.  ;)  I would guess it'll be kind of hard for judges to have to figure out targeting from non-targeting behaviors....but, that remains to be seen.  :D

The above is all just my opinion from having read the comments from others and my own personal past experience. I just don't want to see dogs dragging the leash pole around or crashing into chairs again, but, I'm afraid we will......  :'(

-Kyle

Kyle
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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2019, 09:42:22 AM »
Iím very much confused.  I distinctly remember multiple judges at multiple trials years ago telling us that the default was to be that the leash runner handed the leash to the handler.  This was done sometime after the ďgood luckĒ start in order to save time and get the finishing dog leashed up quickly so the starting dog could be unleashed.  Our club used to use the leash bucket method and we did not change that based on our own decision.  I personally like being handed my leash but either way I think it makes sense to have a NADAC  default.  That way when people travel to a new club they know if they need to tell the leash runner to do something differently.  Much like using the standardized premium I think this helps exhibitors.

Gina

Chris Nelson

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2019, 10:24:59 AM »
A default is very different from a rule.

The default is to hand the leash to the handler.  But itís not a rule and clubs and judges can instruct leash runners to do it differently if it works better for their area.


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Lorrie Stelz

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2019, 05:43:26 PM »
personally I prefer a chair for the leashes than a leash pole.  When my slip leads are hung on leash poles, the slip part falls closed to almost nothing and takes a bit for me to reopen it.  If there is a chair with my leash on it, the leash runner can lay it on the chair with the slip part open to make it quicker for me to get on.  Otherwise I prefer it to be handed to me open.  I have had some leash runners just pick up my leashes and hand it to me in a big ball and the neck part has closed completely and takes me a bit to get it reopened again.  Same as when hung on the leash pole.  But, MOST leash runners are good and hand it to me open.
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BeckyAH

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2019, 07:12:06 PM »
As a general tip for keeping slip leashes open, regardless of how they are carried or placed - I put (the over the collar style - just a triangle with a pocket sewn in to thread a collar (or slip leash!) through) bandanas  on my slip leads.  They don't stop the leash from functioning as a slip ON the dog, they come off with the leash so the dog is running naked, and they absolutely prevent them easily tightening to closed when thrown/dropped/hung up. 

You just put the bandana on initially on with the leash 'unslipped'/straightened out, then loop back through to get your noose back, and you're good to go.  They're staying opened unless you PULL that sucker straight to remove the bandana.  As a bonus they are MUCH more visible on the ground, in grass or dirt, both to the leash runner and to me at the end of a run (I like mine on the ground for one of mine).
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 08:18:24 PM by BeckyAH »

BeckyAH

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Re: Leash Pole
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2019, 08:06:41 PM »


Video - you can pretty clearly see it takes no extra time to take off,  and that it stays open to be put back on.  Also a HUGE help when removing a leash from a hairy dog, honestly, because the leash doesn't disappear into the fur.  Pus it's eliminated my occasional attempts at putting the leash handle over my dog's head.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 08:14:56 PM by BeckyAH »