price increase?

[KellyDittmar]

Packages are great - and I'd like to advocate for them with a caveat.

Anyone who sits on a committee and is close to the money knows that it's the multi-dog handler checks that make a big difference to the success of a trial. You get that one person who runs 3 (or 4 or 5) dogs in full loads to show up - or you don't - and that's make or break money right there. It would take 3 (or 4 or 5) handlers who each run a single-dog to make up for that 1 multi-dog person not being there. So I love it when people offer a package to entice those folks who write those big checks. In our area - we need those big checks... they do make or break us. And we look for those handlers to show up. We keep them happy. We need them to come back.

What irks me is that a lot of clubs are setting up packages with tiered pricing and you have to have multiple dogs to get to the lowest price. It seems to me like if you have 1 dog running everything - you should be able to get to the lowest price point offered by a club. It seems to me like we shouldn't charge more for someone just because they decide that they are only going to live with one dog, or because their second dog is injured, too young, too old, whatever.

I know prices are going up - and we'll all be making our own decisions about that - I just hope that people who set prices consider that a 1 dog handler entering a full load is supporting a club financially to the best of their ability and I hope that clubs adjust their package prices to support those handlers as well as those folks with the big checks.

[BeckyAH]

It's going to be what it's going to be.  Most people will continue to support their clubs to the best of their abilities.  Lots of people are barely even going to notice that extra 1.00 per run. 

I am.  What I have for agility really is what I have.   That means I'll either be entering fewer runs per dog, fewer dogs, fewer trials, or fewer days. 

The price of everything increases.  I want clubs and NADAC to grow.   I'll do the best I can with it and overall probably some new competitors, new dogs and the people who aren't as concerned about that extra 20-50.00 a weekend will pick up the slack for those of us who are.

C'est la vie.

[dogrsqr]

Audri in my opinion that hour or two makes a huge difference.  It’s the difference between finishing at 1:00 or 3:00.  3:00 puts us in the heat of the day for 2 more hours when we are already typically dead from the heat around noon, especially judges and leash runners.

Gina

[dogrsqr]

While $1/run may not seem like much to most people it adds up quickly when you enter 4 dogs. We already don’t enter all 8 runs a day.  The additional cost IF it changes our trialing would most likely mean we enter a few less trials.  Since we travel for many trials it doesn’t make sense to me to reduce runs and pay for travel costs. 

Package prices are hugely important to those of us with multiple dogs.

Gina Pizzo

[Billie Rosen]

Chris, I think one of the things that really hurts is that that price increase was done all at once, rather than some kind of phasing in.  Have you thought about maybe a $.50 increase this year, and then another $.50 increase in a year or two (so NADAC and judges would get half the increase this year, and then the rest in a year or two).  That might help some clubs figure out how to make all this work.  I doubt very many people will quit doing NADAC altogether because of this price increase, but I know from conversations I have heard that people will but back the number of trials, or the number of classes they enter at a trial, so smaller clubs are really concerned with making the minimum.  They are really concerned about the increase of the minimum runs to 300 a day as well.  So I would suggest that it would be a lot better to put off increasing the minimum for a while or phasing that in as well.  NADAC isn't going to be able to increase its income if clubs quit putting on trials and people cut back on their entries.  Just my thoughts.

[Chris Nelson]

Clubs should have no concerns whatsoever about making ends meet.

We’ve said many times that we waive most of the fees when a club is going to lose money.

The problem I have with phasing it in is that I would like to never have to go through this again.

If we increase it by .50 this year, and then again in 2021.   We’re just going to be having these conversations all over again. 

I would much rather get through it, and not have to do it again for another 25 years.   And hopefully by that time it’ll be Carson making the decision and not me!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marcy Matties]

Chris, I think one of the things that really hurts is that that price increase was done all at once, rather than some kind of phasing in.  Have you thought about maybe a $.50 increase this year, and then another $.50 increase in a year or two (so NADAC and judges would get half the increase this year, and then the rest in a year or two).  That might help some clubs figure out how to make all this work.  I doubt very many people will quit doing NADAC altogether because of this price increase, but I know from conversations I have heard that people will but back the number of trials, or the number of classes they enter at a trial, so smaller clubs are really concerned with making the minimum.  They are really concerned about the increase of the minimum runs to 300 a day as well.  So I would suggest that it would be a lot better to put off increasing the minimum for a while or phasing that in as well.  NADAC isn't going to be able to increase its income if clubs quit putting on trials and people cut back on their entries.  Just my thoughts.

Billie - I don't think the minimum NUBMER of runs has increased to 300.  The minimum run count is still 200.  It's just that the PAYMENT will go from $200 to $300 because of the price increase.

[KellyDittmar]

Because I just went to search for it, I'm adding a link to the thread that had the post with what you are allowed to spend as a club and still qualify for waiving of fees.

https://www.nadac.com/forum/index.php?topic=8218.msg53052

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

Audri in my opinion that hour or two makes a huge difference.  It’s the difference between finishing at 1:00 or 3:00.  3:00 puts us in the heat of the day for 2 more hours when we are already typically dead from the heat around noon, especially judges and leash runners.

Gina

I get it, but the majority of our trials are outdoors all summer long and we don't start our local trials until 8 or 9, even with the heat and we manage.  I would do the Purina, but I can't do 2 nights in a hotel and I don't have an RV.  It isn't feasible to leave by 4am to get there in time to run on Saturday and I am not going to drive to St. Louis on Saturday, spend the money on a hotel to only compete on Sunday.  It doesn't make sense, so they lose my entry of 4 dogs and 40 runs.

[dogrsqr]

Well I’m still going to disagree.  We just trialed outdoors last weekend in rain, sleet and snow and 40 degree temps.  Neither us humans or our dogs are acclimated to 90 and humid yet.  We were all dead by noon today.

Gina

[Audri, Cee Cee, Lily, Toto, and Calypso]

Well I’m still going to disagree.  We just trialed outdoors last weekend in rain, sleet and snow and 40 degree temps.  Neither us humans or our dogs are acclimated to 90 and humid yet.  We were all dead by noon today.

Gina

I get it Gina.  I just don't do Purina or shows in Indiana (that start at 8am) for the simple reason that I can't get there on time and can't do 2 nights in a hotel, and because I work, I can't even leave on Friday anyway most of the time, so those shows lose my 40 runs.  I trial outside all summer long because that is all we have around here, so I guess I just deal with it.  And I do work at all of the shows that I trial at building courses, leash running, bar setting, etc.  Karissa made a point and I agree with her that starting later for those of us that drive in the morning would make me think about going to those trials.  You don't have to change the time, but I just can't make those trials.   

[Ed Scharringhausen]

Your $1125/day scenario neglects (most trials are 2 days): Judge Flight typically $3-400, most stay in hotels $200-$300+, Judges food $50-$80, typical Site fees $500 -$800/day (whether rented or mortgaged) , taxes $400minimum/day (based on $1125), club ribbons/awards $100-$200+, gas $100+, Many judges are charging commuting mileage $40, judges airport parking $50-$80, trial food $100
Even prorated over 2 days $1125- $1400= ~ $300 minimum LOSS.  This does not even begin to account for time, equipment replacement, trailer, print cartridges ($30-$50/trial), ...

A lot of clubs are barely meeting minimums too and already running tight on cash.

This increase will hurt A Lot of clubs and Exhibitors.

Ed Scharringhausen

[Chris Nelson]

Your $1125/day scenario neglects (most trials are 2 days): Judge Flight typically $3-400, most stay in hotels $200-$300+, Judges food $50-$80, typical Site fees $500 -$800/day (whether rented or mortgaged) , taxes $400minimum/day (based on $1125), club ribbons/awards $100-$200+, gas $100+, Many judges are charging commuting mileage $40, judges airport parking $50-$80, trial food $100
Even prorated over 2 days $1125- $1400= ~ $300 minimum LOSS.  This does not even begin to account for time, equipment replacement, trailer, print cartridges ($30-$50/trial), ...

A lot of clubs are barely meeting minimums too and already running tight on cash.

This increase will hurt A Lot of clubs and Exhibitors.

Ed Scharringhausen

None of that is increasing with the us.

So if clubs are affording it now, then our price increase doesn't affect that.

If the clubs raise their prices by $1 then everything comes out square.

If clubs don't raise by a $1, then yes things are going to hurt.  But that is a clubs decision to make.

[Chris Nelson]

Also in regards to trials getting smaller, that may be an issue for some clubs, and that does suck.

But it's a pretty localized issue.

Just a few examples from entry number in 2017 compared to 2019:
Ready 2 Run: 39% larger in 2019
SWAT: 3% larger in 2019
Mountain Dog Sports: 21% larger in 2019
In the Zone: 9% Larger in 2019
Run as One: 170% Larger in 2019
Yellowstone Dog Sports: 3% larger in 2019
Matanuska Agility Canine Handlers:  25% larger in 2019

Now obviously this isn't the case everywhere.   There are some areas in the Northeast that are 26% smaller this year then they were in 2017.     

But, overall, in every part of the country, NADAC trials are getting larger and larger.  Not the other way around.

And just going globally for the month of May, we had 15% more runs in 2019 then we did in 2017.   

[Linda W. Anderson]

Your $1125/day scenario neglects (most trials are 2 days): Judge Flight typically $3-400, most stay in hotels $200-$300+, Judges food $50-$80, typical Site fees $500 -$800/day (whether rented or mortgaged) , taxes $400minimum/day (based on $1125), club ribbons/awards $100-$200+, gas $100+, Many judges are charging commuting mileage $40, judges airport parking $50-$80, trial food $100
Even prorated over 2 days $1125- $1400= ~ $300 minimum LOSS.  This does not even begin to account for time, equipment replacement, trailer, print cartridges ($30-$50/trial), ...

A lot of clubs are barely meeting minimums too and already running tight on cash.

This increase will hurt A Lot of clubs and Exhibitors.

Ed Scharringhausen

None of that is increasing with the us.

So if clubs are affording it now, then our price increase doesn't affect that.

If the clubs raise their prices by $1 then everything comes out square.

If clubs don't raise by a $1, then yes things are going to hurt.  But that is a clubs decision to make.

I don't think you are taking into account average exhibitor (at least in my area) has X amount of money to spend on entries, travel expenses,  etc. per trial.  If entry fees go up they will still spend the same amount of money which equals out to fewer runs and less income for the club.  Or they will enter fewer trials which will hurt both clubs and NADAC. 
Linda Anderson