Chances -Suggestion to Judges & Course Designers

[Ed Scharringhausen]

Please consider not using weaves in Chances so frequently or at all.

Many of Our past several trials have had weaves in Chances. At a few of our most recent trials we had weaves in 10 of 14 rounds. Even if you take out gamblers where they are optional that still made 8 of 14 rounds where weaves were required. That’s awfully weave dependent.

My dogs and many dogs can do them. The question is do we want them weaving that much, do we want the courses so weave dependent and are you alienating some handlers with that many?

[JimmyS.]

Its just the luck of the draw, Ed. They are not anymore prevalent than they always have been.


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[Sara Langston]

I love weaves in Chances!!!!!  It's the contacts that eat my lunch!!!!!

Sara

[Kyle]

Its just the luck of the draw, Ed. They are not anymore prevalent than they always have been.


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Jimmy,

Ed may have a point here. In order to get those 10 runs in a weekend that included weaves, and his concern was the weaves in Chances, obviously they had 2 Chances courses with weaves in them. If I was just running, I don't think I would like to have weaves as part of the challenge *both days* in Chances. (Along with weaves in Regular and doing the Weavers class.) Plus, I don't think I've ever seen weaves both days in Chances when offered.

Why send a club 2 Chances courses that include weaves? Ugh. Not always fun and maybe not always that great on a dog's body (shoulders, back). Which is what, I think, Ed is asking. IOW, I think Ed has valid questions. Maybe NADAC, before sending the courses, should check to make sure that the challenges on a Chances course shouldn't be the same if they have 2 different courses. Especially if one of the challenges is weaves. No "luck of the draw", but NADAC making smart and safe choices for course options in a weekend.

Just my opinion,
Kyle

[Amanda Nelson]

And with judges designing their own courses they can look at things like this and be aware (as they already are) But if a club puts a trial on the calendar late and the judge does not have enough time to make courses they have to get courses from us, and sometimes the pickings can be very low.

NADAC as a whole cannot police everything, we try our best, but I will be honest and slightly blunt here, I do not think people fully grasp the amount of courses that come through this office along with the number of trials, and trying our best that people don't see the same courses again, making sure they go to the right areas for the correct class listings, etc, etc.

I will also be slightly blunt and honest, is anything said if there is an aframe in chances both days? or tunnels? Or the number of jumps per day?

I am not trying to say that weaving that much is "good", and I hope I don't come across that way, but sometimes I feel the bigger picture needs to be looked at.

We do our best at the office, but we cannot police everything.

Amanda

Its just the luck of the draw, Ed. They are not anymore prevalent than they always have been.


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Jimmy,

Ed may have a point here. In order to get those 10 runs in a weekend that included weaves, and his concern was the weaves in Chances, obviously they had 2 Chances courses with weaves in them. If I was just running, I don't think I would like to have weaves as part of the challenge *both days* in Chances. (Along with weaves in Regular and doing the Weavers class.) Plus, I don't think I've ever seen weaves both days in Chances when offered.

Why send a club 2 Chances courses that include weaves? Ugh. Not always fun and maybe not always that great on a dog's body (shoulders, back). Which is what, I think, Ed is asking. IOW, I think Ed has valid questions. Maybe NADAC, before sending the courses, should check to make sure that the challenges on a Chances course shouldn't be the same if they have 2 different courses. Especially if one of the challenges is weaves. No "luck of the draw", but NADAC making smart and safe choices for course options in a weekend.

Just my opinion,
Kyle

[Scott Casino]

On behalf of judges, I'll put out this request/reminder:

Course design can be very time-consuming...a complete set of courses is 29 different courses. We are submitting courses for review at least 2 months prior to your trial. Please let your judge know as far in advance as possible details like: run format (single run vs double run?), classes offered each day, ring size, and any ring issues (fixed or movable ring fencing/gating, immovable structures/fixtures like columns). The earlier a club can pass along this info, the more likely it is for judges to design a set of courses that address these issues.

[Lindsey Cooper]

Kyle - did he mention that it was 2 different chances courses on 2 different days? My assumption was that it was a double run trial, so that's why it was in both rounds.

As Amanda stated, there are people that don't want the dog walk or A frame in chances. We have a extra large dog here that gets bummed when there are tunnels in chances.

I've seen a wide variety in chances and we haven't had very many with weaves in them. Yes, there are some, but having dogs know how to weave at distance is part of the challenge just like contacts at a distance.

If seeing weaves at every trial in chances were to happen, then I might start to worry, but over a few weekends, it's bound to happen. Handlers always have the option of not entering all classes if they are worried about their dog weaving more than they should. Classes like weavers and regular are always going to have weaves. In chances, I've never seen more than 6 weaves.

I guess this is also more of an issue for people who trial a lot. In CO, we have 8 trials per year in the Denver area. Last year I traveled a bit so I hit a total of 16 trials. Having only 1-2 trials a month doesn't stress me out if there are weaves in chances. If I trialed 3-4 times/month maybe, but I think I'd be more worried about over trialing my dog (and myself and my pocketbook) more than weaves.

Lindsey

[Chris Nelson]

So I think a little more detail here is important:

1) It's a double run trial, so if you're running Chances twice in a day, then you'll have Weaves twice for that class, but never more than a single set of six.
2) For this trial, only ONE of the chances courses ran had Weave poles.    It was a double run trial, over two days.
This was the format:
Sat: 2 Reg, 2 J, 2 Wv, 2 Gb
Sun: 2 CC, 2 Reg, 2 Tg

Which means that you never were forced to do weave poles any more than 4 rounds per day.   

Had this been a format with 2 Regular, 2 Chances and 2 Weaves, and the chances course had weaves, then I would say it's a totally valid complaint.
Chances has had weaves in it since the literal inception of the class.   

I would encourage all handlers to do what is right for their dogs.    If your dog has trouble weaving because of their build or skill level, then I would obviously not suggest running 2 round of regular and 2 rounds of weavers.   

Would be absolutely no different than if my dog had issues jumping, it's not the clubs or NADAC's responsibility to change the class listing so that your dog doesn't have to jump that day, it's your job as the handler to do what is best for your dog.   And what is best for your dog, might not be what is best for the other 40 dogs at the trial